To my Jewish readers, I hope your first night of Passover was enlightening and filled with love.
For the non-Jews, allow me to explain:
Passover refers to the Jews’ Exodus from Egypt. During the Ten Plagues of Egypt, allegedly God “passed over” the houses of the Israelites. While I’m not a traditional, by-the-book Jew, I’m definitely a cultural Jew.
And I can’t help but notice the irony: during Passover, here I am, letting the stress “pass over” as I search for a new home, pack our boxes, and move on. But in the midst of this chaos, there is something good: amour.
I’ve told my friends and family that I’ve met someone — and without fail, their first question is:
“Is he Jewish?”
Uh, no.
Technically, he’s Catholic (sorry, Grandma Frances, although I’m sure my Catholic Grandma Ruth would be thrilled!). He’s not observant, however. He doesn’t go to church. [Editorial update: after posting this, we had a brief "Do you believe in God?" talk. We're both atheists. Whew.]
I’ve been asked so many times if he’s Jewish that it has become an inside joke.
“You can call me Isaac,” he tells me.
Well, so much for all of those months I spent on JDate. It figures, doesn’t it?
So, there you have it: I’m with a non-Jew.
Are you surprised? After all, I’ve written a slue of posts about hoping to find a Jewish man. I got kind of obsessed about it at one point, and even devoted a whole chapter in my book to JDate.
Which brings me to this:
How important does religion factor into your love life? Does it matter at all?
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I used to always think it was important. When I use the dating websites I always look and decide meeting based on that feature (not alone but yeah it is a factor).
Oddly, I always meet men IRL that aren’t religious (belief or no belief) or has an entirely different religion. My current guy is not religious at all and has no beliefs that one is new for me.
Kari´s last blog post…Spring Cleaning
What a question for today… I say that because I am in the middle of deciding how to proceed if my boyfriend of two years doesn’t go to Easter services with us.
When we first started seeing each other, I was very clear that I couldn’t marry a man who wouldn’t go to church with us (and the whole point of dating is to eventually get married). My daughter was very sick though and we were basically homebound for almost a year (she had a bone marrow transplant).
It wasn’t until after she was allowed out without a mask and I had been fed every excuse in the book about why he couldn’t go with us, that he admitted to me “I don’t believe in anything.” I was devastated.
He knows it is important to me, but still won’t go. I haven’t laid it out as an ultimatum, but that is pretty much what it is.
I already have four kids who I want to have a good, Christian example for a step-father. We probably wouldn’t have any more (although maybe one won’t hurt). Still, parents are our children’s examples and I know what kind of example I want us to set for them. (Whoever that ‘us’ turns out to be.)
As for your new amour, you have to realize that although he isn’t observant now, as soon as a baby comes into this world, he’s going to want her baptized in the Catholic church.
Then he’s going to start thinking ahead to confirmation and first communion… I know because it was just one of the things that drove a wedge between my ex-husband and I (not to mention the fact that as soon as he realized he couldn’t take communion at church anymore because he married a non-Catholic he suddenly wanted it more.)
I know that would all be a long way off for you guys… but you have to think ahead and plan now. Find out if he is willing to convert for you (or decide if you are willing to do so for him). I know people make mixed marriages work… but it takes a special couple to be able to pull that off.
after my divorce, i joined EVERY online dating site. match.com and jDate were the ones i met the most people from.
i dated a guy. very seriously. who wasn’t jewish. he was an ob/gyn. cute. brilliant. and…gentile.
i thought it would be ok. but then i started thinking about the 2 jewish kids that i had given birth to already. and the fact that my boyfriend wanted to have more children if we got married. but he wanted them to be 1/2 jewish 1/2 catholic. and…he wanted to hang a picture of jesus in the guest bedroom for when his mother came to visit.
i ran.
i adored him. but…i figured, he would find a nice gentile girl who wouldn’t have a problem with jesus being in their home. in any way, shape or form.
and then i met my husband.
on jdate.
i kissed a TON of frogs.
of various religious backgrounds.
and i realized how important the jewish factor was to me.
so is religion important.
yep. to me…it truly is.
Thanks Kari, mykidsmomx4, and Melissa! I’m fascinated by how much weight religion carries for some.
Writing this post inspired me to ask all of those religion questions on the phone last night (i.e., “Would you celebrate Jewish holidays with us?”… Yes!).
But mykidsmomx4, you’re right: we haven’t had the Baptism talk (!).
Can’t wait to hear from the rest of you on this one.
I think if something like that is really important to you, like a dealbreaker, then you should stick to your guns because it will eventually come up and be an issue. It doesn’t really sound like it is an issue for you, so I wouldn’t worry about what anyone else thinks.
Personally, I am also Jewish, but hate the idea of dating other Jews! Even though both my parents are Jewish and I’ve even been to Israel, I NEVER feeling Jewish “enough,” and I’m always worried I’ll end up related to the person I’m dating. HAHA. Plus, where I live (Seattle) the community is very very small here. Meeting another Jew is very rare and Jdate in my zip code has like 10 people, and yes, one of them is my brother.
rachelgab´s last blog post…A message from the universe
I know better and should keep quiet but…
Why is unacceptable to be biased against someone of a different race and culture, but completely acceptable to be prejudice against people of different religions?
I understand that having different beliefs causes issues, especially when raising children – but that is true with many different aspects of life and people have much less resistance working through it.
The idea that someone of a different belief or non-belief is less moral and not enough of a quality person is completely laughable to me. Some of the most honest and moral people I know are non-believers (and three of my best friends are deeply religious). Today and throughout history, the most immoral acts are done for the word of God. Personally, I believe in doing good for the sake of helping other people – not for some promised reward after death.
Stepping down from the soap box now…
I’m with mykidsmomx4, what a great topic for this week! Just a few days ago, I broke things off with my first post-broken-marriage man over the issue of religion. He’s an avowed atheist and I knew it going in but I tried to convince myself it wasn’t a big deal.
I’m a Catholic and although I’m not all that uber-relgious, I’m all about the culture part. I like church, I like holidays, I like nativity scenes and palm leaves. I’m not looking for a man I can pray with or anything but I began to realize that I can’t be in a relationship with someone who doesn’t at least somewhat share my beliefs.
Of course he’s furious. He thinks I’m being judgmental for not being able to see past his non-belief to who he really is. I feel he’s missing the point…that I don’t object to him as a person for his non-belief, but it’s just not a good fit if my goal is to raise my son in a Christian home. He has a daughter who he is raising to make her own choice about religion. He swears he’s open to Christianity, but he also told me he threatened his mom he’d not let her see her granddaughter if she kept telling her Bible stories. I’m thinking he’s not as open as he likes to think he is… I’m totally fine with that if that’s how he wants to raise his daughter, but it seems like a recipe for disaster if the four of us all lived together.
That being said, it’s *my* wish, *my* goal. Religion is such a personal choice and I want to marry a Christian man, but if religious differences aren’t a big deal to you then by all means, go for it! But it might be worth talking about (especially the baptism bit!). Good luck!
Great question! I’m not Jewish or overly religious. I’m very spiritual though and I would like to find someoone with similar beliefs and values. I think if I met someone who was extremely religious it wouldn’t work out but some differences are OK. I’d be willing to try new things if he were as well.
MindyMom´s last blog post…Mothers, Fathers & Our Kid’s Self-Esteem
Phil, it’s not about being bias but about life style.
As a Christan I give my thanks to God and pray to him daily. I believe he is my source, my redeemer, my savior.
This is a life style choice. Marrying a non-believer, a Jew, a Muslim etc would not work. It’s not a bias but an incompatibility.
I am not saying that non-believes are not honest or kind. I too have many non-believer friends who are great people. There is no doubt about that.
We all worship something. Look at where your money and energy goes and that can be a good indication of what you worship. At the end of the day (and the beginning) I want someone who I can pray with, who I can thank God for what He gave me so I was able to volunteer, to give to others, to wake up and walk and eat….
My dad is a Jew, my mom a Catholic. When we had problems/decisions/joys there was that lack of unity as to how to problem solving, where to go for help, resources. It causes a divide in family unity. I go to prayer first, my neighbors go the bar and talk over alcohol, a wiccan I know often burns herbs and oils.
Especially with kids, spirituality is a deal breaker for me. I could marry a snorer, a vegan, vegetarian or carnivore, a Harley Rider, a jock, a lawyer, house builder or teacher. It’s not a judgmental bias but the belief in how I want to raise my family.
I have 2 great friend who are Jews and observe the weekly sundown to sundown on Fridays. They have raised their grown kids with this belief system. I could not do that for any man. Would you do that for a woman? Would you attend a weekly Christian service? Would you stop practicing some more pagan ways and place God before anything else?
Now where might the bias be?
I am an atheist, as are almost all of my close friends, and while I used to think that I could date someone who identified as “agnostic” or “spiritual,” I have realized that it is REALLY REALLY important to me that the person I am with be atheist (which the BF is).
Organized religion has done FAR more harm to the world than it has good, and I could just never have a LTR with someone who fell for it.
Honey´s last blog post…Spring Chicken: Birthday Celebrations!
Good question. I think I’ll make an entry for it.
Mike´s last blog post…Now That’s a First
Being a recovering-Catholic myself, I get this.
I wouldn’t think religion would factor into things since I’m not religious. However, I did learn from being married into a hardcore Catholic family that there will be heated arguments if I stand my ground on things like not wanting my kids baptized and not getting married in the church. (Which is why, to this day, my ex-father-in-law says our marriage didn’t last…)
And I am VERY spiritual. Being spiritual to me means that I accept people as they are. Soldier was a Catholic and I fully accepted that he would most likely want a Catholic wedding. I am surprisingly open to it now.
However the more I watched Soldier slip into his own private hell, and neglected his own faith to get him through it, I realized:
I do need someone in my life who will recognize that somethings… we simply cannot do without God.
Because there’s something beautiful about allowing a higher power to direct you… and knowing that everything will be ok.
T´s last blog post…A typical morning…
I’d be more interested in being with someone who is striving to leave the best print on this Earth than someone who’s obsessing about the hereafter. Can you tell I’m an atheist?
April´s last blog post…Odds and Ends
First, I wish we could control who we love, but sometimes we can’t. My mother (raised Episcopalian) converted to Judiasm to marry my father. I was previously married to a Catholic from a large (10 siblings) Catholic family. We agreed to raise her with both family’s traditions and rituals. She was named and baptized. She goes to Sunday school at our neighborhood Catholic church with her new step siblings (to complicate matters with remarriage.) When my first husband and I went to marriage counseling we discussed the religious stresses. the marriage counselor warned that when one gives up their religion to make a relationship/family work one will always mourn the loss of traditions from their own upbringing. I watched my mother struggle her entire life with this since we did not celebrate Christmas. She seemed almost seemed thrilled when we asked my parents to start coming every year for Christmas. I saw sides of my mother I never knew existed and now lives for our family Christmas celebration! And as I have lost touch with Judiasm (for many many reasons) I know that mourn the loss of those traditions. I will also add though that we went through the Catholic premarriage courses before hand and they helped us really talk about so many issues!!! it was great!
If things get serious go to counseling before marriage to really resolve how it will work out. that is the question i would always ask a man before getting into a serious relationship. Would yu be willing to go to counseling before we get married to talk about what our new family and marriage would be like? So worth it. Best time and money ever invested!
Judy: My money goes to my kid’s college and my energy goes into running… I’m not sure which God I’m worshiping!
Yes, I agree with your point about it being a life style – but so is being a vegan, or being a different race, or fiscal responsibility. My point is why are people so inflexible on religion, but not other issues?
No, I would not go to a weekly church service for a woman. That would be dishonest of me. I would marry a woman who did, and if she couldn’t accept me not going – that would be her bias, not mine.
And yes, raising children in a mixed marriage is very tricky (not just religion). It would always depend on the couple. My kids are grown, so it isn’t an issue for me.
T: Isn’t it equally as beautiful to know that you are directing your life and everything will still be okay?
Shall I answer or would you like to answer for me?
I am most comfortable dating Jewish men…I like the shared heritage and beliefs. I like NOT having to explain the Yiddish that is peppered throughout my speech. I like the understanding that is silent.
Would I date a non-Jew? Sure, I have. But never anyone who was church-going. I miss having a partner in holidays and religious services, and that is something that would always be lacking with someone not Jewish. Also, I’m not looking to teach someone – I have two kids and three dogs – I don’t want to do it. Maybe that would change if everything else was great, but right now I only date Jewish men. Oh no I don’t…I date no one!
Amy Sue Nathan´s last blog post…Praise Moses and pass the matzah: A Passover primer
Rachel, great topic! My answer is yes, religion factor is important in my love life. Although I am not a 100% devout Muslim (I call myself a practical Muslim), but it is important to be able to share some spirirual believes with my Love. It is also about compatibility in terms of living arrangements i.e. food and all that. I have no issue in dating non-Muslim guys before, but somehow I am lucky enough to find a man who shares the same faith as I do. My fiance is a Canadian with a very strong French/German blood, and comes as lily white as he can be with all of the western upbringing but what brings us closer on top of other compatibilities is the fact that we speak of the same language on how to bring up a child, or what sort of spiritual activities we should do together as family when we are married or even as far as will writing, burial after death and other issues that I think most people with different faith may have.
Hanie´s last blog post…What Consultants Do – The Chicken Joke
I wouldn’t consider myself an atheist, but I don’t practice a particular organized religion either. I feel that I’m pretty open as far as religion goes. It’s definitely not one of my main criteria when meeting a guy, but I suppose it could become an issue, depending on the guy and his particular beliefs. I’m more concerned with a guy’s morals and beliefs and viewpoints rather than his religion.
Janet´s last blog post…Money Can’t Buy Me Love.
What a wealth of intelligent comments. I’m with Phil on this one. It all has to do with respect. I married an agnostic, while I am a for-the-most-part-non-practicing Catholic. Toward the end of our marriage, he started grilling me on my beliefs, and here I thought he accepted me for who I was (not knowing all the answers and not being able to defend all of my beliefs… that pesky old “faith” thing). It became an issue, but it was because he didn’t respect me enough to let me believe what I wanted to.
mykidsmomx4: how do you know he would want a baby baptized? I thought for years I would make my son go to CCD and have his first communion, but I’m kinda changing my mind. People evolve, you know, and are not slaves to their own upbringing. At least not everyone.
Wow, religion really does spark something hot in many of us, doesn’t it?
Thanks to all of you who suggested that I bring this up early and have an open dialogue.
Yes, Bonnie, believe it or not, one of the first questions I asked “Isaac” was about whether or not he’d be open to going to couple’s counseling at some point…. Great third date topic! (I’m serious).
Anna and mykidsmomx4:
Reading your comments got me to ask “Isaac” if he’d want his future child baptized. Good question. Thanks!! (And he’s being quite the trooper with all of this drilling!)
His answer re: a future baptism. : “No.”
Me: “Are you sure? I mean, you were baptized.”
Him: “Really, no…”
Yes, perhaps people do evolve.
P.S. This post got my Aunt Marge all riled up…. I better email her now!
Great topic. I realized after marrying my husband that both cultural and religious differences can be very hard to overcome. While easier in a marriage or adult relationship, you face roadblocks when it comes to parenting styles. So, no, I would not date a Jew unless I was willing to convert to Judiasm for him or he was willing to convert to Christianity for me. That said, I’d rather date someone WITH faith in something than without faith. I’m not a hardcore religious person but I am Christian and I do believe we die and go to live with God in Heaven. As a Christian, I would need to marry someone who is open to accompanying me to church and raising our children as Christians. Just would. My ex as not. BIG problem for us once Pumpkinhead came along.
PT-LawMom´s last blog post…If Pumpkinhead was on Twitter
For me religion only matters as far as what he’d be willing to do for me if I were willing to do it for him (convert or attend the other’s services.) Differences CAN be overcome if both parties are willing…my mom is Catholic and my stepdad is Jewish and for them, it’s never been an issue.
I was raised Catholic, I’m currently a member of a nondemoninational place of worship, and I consider myself more spiritual than anything else. I have mostly Jewish friends, but also some strong Christians, as well as Atheist friends, and I believe that it’s a personal decision.
My ex and I were of different religions and while we visited many different churches, we never agreed on one to attend as a family. He refused to go with me to the Catholic Church I grew up in, and I simply was not comfortable with the practices of the types of churches he liked. Therefore when we were dating, we went to a temple where people simply meditate.
Currently I attend church on occasion with my mom, but day-to-day I tend to live by the Golden Rule. So for me, being with someone like-minded would be the most important consideration in selecting a future mate.
@ Phil – vegans are probably the LEAST tolerant group when it comes to selecting a long-term partner. I’m only veggie, and I could NEVER live in the same house with someone who ate meat.
Not.Gonna.Happen.
I grew up in a cult. Not quite kool-aid drinking or stockpiling weapons – but close. I left when I was 21. We were always told we should marry in the “church”. Thankfully I did not. My point is that someone’s adherance to dogma, commandments, or regular church attendance is only part of the story. I think the beliefs that you hold are far more important than the labels that we use to distinguish one religion from another.
I don’t attend church and am not sure that I ever will. But I do believe that there is something greater than myself (God, Higher Power, Goddess, Love, etc) and I’ve decided that I want a relationship/union that honors whatever that higher power is. I don’t think I can label it with a particular religious title, but I think I’ll know it when I see it.
Good for you Rachel for laying this stuff out now.
Amy´s last blog post…Journal 126: March 2009 A Long Day
I like that people are pointing out that sometimes religion does dictate cultural differences that are hard to overcome. I don’t want to be in a relationship with constant compromise. It’s hard enough to live day in and day out with another person and parent, work, pay bills etc. With all the things we have to compromise on as a couple at this point in my life I’m a strong believer in choosing someone who’s enough like yourself that you minimize the need for compromise as much as possible. I’m on my third “serious adult relationship” and after having 2 where we did not share the same cultural upbringing due to religion I purposely sought out someone who did. Religion does not consume my life. I’m a very liberal Catholic. I’d probably fit better in a Protestant denomination but I can’t get over the literal Bible thing. But I want to celebrate the holidays with someone who likes them too and is excited about them. I want to teach my son to take the good from Church teachings but question them also. If I had found someone of a different religion who would have embraced mine and gotten into it for me I would have done the same for him though. I can see it being fun celebrating different holidays with each other.
I’m a Cafeteria Catholic who dated a wonderful Jewish man for 2 yrs…however, religion was The Elephant in the Roomance-
I Heard
I heard the herd before you
There on the living room floor
They were both mammoth and diminutive
You told me they were there
A Skeptic and an Optimystic
I happily dis-believed
And then I heard them rumble
Low raspy grunts and groans about lox, dox, conservadox and Issues and tissues
and what is and who are compatible?
Too much> too soon> too fast>
They rasped -
the herd of elephants lounging on the living room floor
“She can’t pass”
“He can’t throw”.
Game Over.
Kerry´s last blog post…Quick – Stop Me if I Speed… Date
Love your blog! Just found it–Vicki F. told me about you. I just have to say that, funnily enough, the only Isaac I’ve dated was actually Catholic! As for the question (an excellent one), for me it’s not so much about religion as about faith and belief. Since separating from my ex I’ve finally acknowledged that I am not the atheist-leaning-agnostic-buddhist-curious I thought I was. During the relationship that I now know was my “rebound,” i reconnected with the faith I was raised in, mainly because my partner shared it and encouraged me in it (he even went with me the first time to the [very liberal] church I’ve since joined). Now that I’m back “on the market,” I’m pretty clear that I could only be seriously involved with someone who is at least open to my beliefs.
Amy´s last blog post…a few words i don’t want to forget because i will most likely never hear them from these particular sources again
who ever said about the Catholics and the baptism… I have some thoughts to add.
Us Catholics even if we aren’t practicing all that much hold fast and true to our sacrements for whatever reason. That along with Lent and Easter are the things I have a hard time letting go of even though I’m not a practicing Catholic anymore (well not in the sense of going to church and those things). I find that most non-practicing Catholics are this way (at least the ones I know).
Kari´s last blog post…Spring Cleaning
Gotta ask – isn’t it a little early to be discussing whether your future kids will be baptized? I mean, aren’t you still just getting to know each other? This may seem a little simplistic, but since you’re both atheists, doesn’t that make the religion issue fairly moot? Sure, your cultural traditions are probably important to you, but I’m sure he’d respect them and be interested in participating. If you end up together for the long term, perhaps some family members will disapprove, but that is something we just have to deal with sometimes in order to be with the one we love.
Walt, I was waiting for someone to say it’s too early to be future-tripping like this (kids? Baptism!!).
Thanks.
For the record, out conversations have been thoughtful and fun… not heavy. I DO think it’s crucial to know how someone stands early on re: the “big” issues, such as kids and religion.
I’d rather know up front that a guy would, say, refuse to celebrate Passover with us.
To the rest of you: Do you also ask these big questions early on, or am I just a weirdo?
I’ve decided I want someone who believes in a higher power. I want someone who even if they are not a practicing whatever they are they still stand by a core set of beliefs.