Thank you, single mamas, for trying to calm me down. I tried. But I was a mess before my date with the Postman last Saturday.
As I drove to the restaurant in the pouring rain, I put my hair up. I let it down, then I put it back up again. The Postman was waiting for me at the sushi bar, and he was much cuter than I’d remembered (of course, it was the first time I’d ever seen him out of uniform). He stood up and there was a brief, warm hug.
If I felt nervous, however, his anxiety made me look calm. Maybe he hadn’t been on a date in a while, either. Maybe the circumstances — how often does a woman pick up her postman? — were a bit unusual.
We didn’t eat much sushi. He talked and talked and talked. He told me about his time in the Navy, his mom, his mail carrier adventures. He’s 40, he owns his own home. What really struck me about him is that he seems like one of these old school, decent, practical gentleman from a century ago. I was charmed.
I asked him loads of questions (I was probably kind of obnoxious), but he just asked me a few (Him: “Have you seen any movies recently?” and “Do you like bowling?”)
This, did, however, make for a good segue to introduce The Child. (“The last movie I saw was Alvin and the Chipmunks.” and “Yes, I bowl — with bumpers.”) I pulled M’s pictures out… and he flipped through each one, slowly, but hardly said a word. Talk about awkward.
An hour later, I offered to pick up the bill, and he suggested that we go across the street for drinks (which he paid for, by the way).
Here, three hours into the date, is when things took a turn. I asked him if he had ever been married, and that’s when he blurted out that his three daughters lived with him every other week.
“Excuse me,” I said way too loudly. “But why did you wait THIS long to tell me that?”
“I wanted to give you a chance to get to know me first,” he said shyly, “before I told you about my girls.”
I shook my head. “I don’t get it–”
“It’s our first date,” he said. “I just thought you should see what I’m like first–”
“But I can’t imagine five minutes passing without saying anything about my daughter,” I said. “How could you not say anything?”
In hindsight, maybe he’s just emotionally reserved. After he outed his paternity, however, he immediately relaxed. The change was undeniable.
Outside, the rain was still pouring. I held up my umbrella, and we both squeezed under it. He gently put his hand around my waist.
Single moms who urged me to have fun, I did.
Tell me, though: Do you tell your first date, up front, that you’re a single parent?… Or do you keep quiet — until the right moment?
Do you think I overreacted… by getting annoyed at him for withholding his kids?
P.S. Single dad Dr. J, you were right: there was a warm hug, a quick kiss on the cheek, his “I had a very good time”(… and a follow-up phone call!)
P.P.S. Thank you to Crazy Computer Dad for the title of this post, which he sent by email and cracked me up (“The postman….Always rings twice.”) You single dads are on a roll.
Photo from Sxc.hu/photo
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I don’t think you overreacted. I tell people first thing about my daughter. I can’t help it! If I’m talking about my life … well … she IS my life, so how could I possibly leave her out of the conversation? Plus, when I meet someone interesting, I want them to know me honestly. Not talking about my baby girl seems almost like a lie. Playing Devil’s Advocate, do you know if he’s dated much? If not, maybe he’s just out of practice?
Okay – being devils advocate here – maybe he wanted to be judged on himself alone and not as a non-custodial parent – so often if “broken relationship” comes up, that is the focus.
That being said, he should have put in “I have 3 girls” when you mentioned yours…
I had a bad history of boyfriends failing to mention their overseas children (and wives) when I was younger – I always think it is very important in that it is part of who you are, especially when your child is in your care.
My daughter’s father was married to his first wife when she presented him with her 10 year old daughter – sort of kyboshed the relationship!
The process each of us go through to figure out how we are going to approach a date, what image we want to project, and what subjects to broach can be complicated. Depending on how long he has been divorced (or separated), how much he has dated, and how much advice he received from his friends (also depends on the kind of friends he has) he just may have made what he thought was the best decision at the time. It doesn’t sound like he lied about it, just that he wanted you to know about who he was first. Granted, he should have shared when you first brought up M.
But us guys can be kind of boneheaded, think too much before we respond, stick to a plan long after it should have been abandoned, and we certainly aren’t going to stop and ask for directions (or call a friend to ask for advice?).
Everyone knows I am a parent either because this not so little blond haired boy keeps coming up to me and calling me dad, or if for some odd reason he isn’t around it’s because I can’t make any plans without first finding a baby sitter. I let everyone know up front that I have him full time and that he has some special needs. Even when it is the summer and he is with his mom and I could pretend to be some crazy unattached 39 year old.
School doesn’t get out until June 20 this year. That seems insane, like they added a week.
Maybe he has met women who were freaked by him having THREE daughters. Many women want a man to themselves, and a man with THREE daughters, well, you are (and should be) always coming in at #4. Maybe he needed to see if he liked you before giving you too much personal information. Had it not gone well he could have said ‘thank you’ after dinner and gone home without you knowing too much about him. If he’s reserved and you push – he’ll rebound right off your budding relationship. Him telling you about his kids is a good sign.
I think you should try to relax! Seems like it went well for a first date.
I agree with Amy. While it would have been a good time to mention his daughters when you mentioned M, I wouldn’t hold it against him that he didn’t. People don’t always do things the same way, and it is very conceivable that he was nervous about mentioning it and/or wanted to get to know you a bit, first.
At least he told you, and has other positive attributes (like being involved in their lives!) to boot.
He seems nice, and by all other accounts it went well. So just take it slow, try to put your guard down a bit, and see how it develops.
I can understand where he is coming from. I usually mention that I am a single mom right out of the gate, and when I do, I cringe to see what his reaction will be.
With 3 kids, Im sure there were a few that ran scared because that is a big instant family if things progress, and he wanted you to like him before making that judgement call. I am glad everything went well. Congrats.
I think what he did was ok. Not great, but ok. I’m willing to be he has had women FREAK out that there are 3 other women in his life that will probably take precidence over them, that in the best of times, she would come in as #4 to him. I think that is a good thing. He is not only protective of himself, he is protective of his children, major brownie points as far as I am concerned.
When I started tip-toeing back into the ‘dating’ world, the very first thing out of my mouth after my name, has always been, “I am a single mom. I have a son”. But for me, after going through everything I went through on my own, for me it is a well earned badge, that I am proud of. I have a boyfriend now, but before him, I loved telling guys I was a single mom, with a tiny baby. Because in that flash of a moment, you can read on their face, what your heart can’t read weeks, or months later. How they really feel about a relationship with a mommy. I either turned away and laughed them off, or they stayed around, and let me talk about my precious bundle of joy. I was actually on a radio show once about this very topic. The poll was about do you hold it against someone if they hold back that they have children. of course there were huge supporters of both sides. I got through and was put on because, I said, “honestly, my dating life has been tons better since I have had a child and I am a single mom.” My reason is purely this: I am confidenet enough now as a independent person to be alone, and not be sad about not having a “significant other”. I support myself, and I am raising a child on my own, no dad to be found. I think that, is what always intrigued the men i did date, to always want to get to know me more. Before my son, I was the one to get dumped, because I was always hell-bent on loving the bad right out of someone, fixing them, and making us work. Now, my high standards (which were always there, but shushed) are those by which I live by for me, and my son, and if someone wants to get on board, like my boyfriend, great, if not, keep on trucking, kid, because the best thing in my life, is about 3 feet tall, 30 lbs, and will snuggle with me any night I want him too.
Yay for you! Sounds like an exciting night.
I’m with the postman, I have to feel people out before I talk about my kids. I have this deep set fear that some guy will be MORE interested in me because of my kids. Scary thought.
Some dates I don’t say a word about them…of course, there is no second date. Some I naturally chat them up within the first 10 minutes. Depends on the dude.
But, good for you. Makes me want to get off the sidelines and snag a few dates again!
My fellow single mama friend went out on a date last week…went through the entire date without telling him she’s a mom. We completely disagree on this. I, like you, Rachel can’t imagine being on a date and not mentioning my son. I think it’s disingenuous. If he is scared – fine – but when you brought up your daughter he first of all – didn’t react or ask questions about her, which is weird and then he didn’t mention his own daughters at that perfect moment. He was nervous – but…that’s a bit of a red flag.
Wow, thank you for letting me know what you think.
Jeanie, Legal Editor Mom, and Ms. Single Mama: yes, I later told him that when I’d mentioned M, it would have been the perfect moment for him to have said, “Guess what? I have a few of those darlings, too!”
But Crazy Computer Dad has enlightened me once again: he DOES seem like the kind of guy who makes a plan and sticks with it. And he did mention something about getting advice from one of his friends about NOT mentioning the kids.
Mommy Pie, Amy, Ana, Dawn, Angie: I’m curious if he has dated much… I’ll ask.
Thanks!
I agree that it’s probably a numbers thing, three might be overwhelming. Okay, I’ll be honest, it would probably be overwhelming to me at first.
How fitting that he’s a dad of girls too
I don’t think it’s a “red flag” that he didn’t mention his three girls. True, it would have been perfect timing for him to have mentioned them when you mentioned M, but maybe he was being cautious. I’m always surprised when I hear men tell of how self-conscious they are and how their usual high level of confidence seems to lock itself in the John in the face of a woman they might actually be truly interested in. It would seem that they really are human inside there somewhere — go figure!
I don’t think there’s one single way of bringing up the kids on a date. I think people tend to get to caught up in the “couldas” and “shouldas”. I don’t always talk about my child at first—it’s my turn to think about—I want to talk about me. Something I hardly ever do.
Honestly, if I had three girls, I might be a bit hesitant to bring them so quickly. We don’t know this man–therefore, we cannot make judgements for him. We need to give him a chance before we get annoyed or angry.
We have to remember, we all have our own story and we all present it differently. Some tell it right away, some want to wait until later to share, some never tell at all. We all have a right to say things when we want to on our own terms and not be judged for that.
One more thing: every single parent had their own way of behaving with their own children. Some live vicariously through them and have trouble separating themselves from their child. some manage to have a life of their own and be a parent, and some do the complete opposite, completely ignore their children and focus soley on dating. I tend to be in the middle—I love my girl dearly and we’re very close—but I manage to have my own life and identity as well.
Give the postman a chance. It’s still too soon to decide.
You know, the things that freak people out can be kind of funny at times! I watch and listen to a lot of people. I know some people that flat out will not date people with kids. I know some people that will only date people with kids (I’m one of them as I’ve tried, it was comically disastrous). I know people that don’t date people of certain trades, or look for people in certain jobs (doctors, lawyers). I know people that won’t date people in the military, and I know people that love to date people in the military. I learned a phrase one time about women that like navy guys, they would “swim out to meet the ship.” I know a lot of Navy guys (I used to be in the Navy) that would never tell a woman they were dating that they were in the Navy. They said instead that they were business men that needed to go out of town on business trips now and then. But don’t come down on them….I’ve heard the lies that women (and how their friends back them up) tell to men too. When all the charades come down, it is usually pretty ugly no matter who was playing the game though. In most movies it works out in the end for some reason…except for Chasing Amy.
Reading comprehension. It’s fundamental, people. So is Listening. So where was this Gent Before the date on Sat.? He was at a ‘youth poetry event’. I was going to comment on the last post that more than likely this means that yes, he too has kids. That’s (almost) obvious now, right? Have you heard much youth poetry? Yes, some of it can be quite good. But your kids are usually the stars in your eyes. Which is why most of the parents are there.
So no, I don’t begrudge him not telling you about his kids until the end of the date. He was just taking it slow, and trying to be cautious. I’m sure he had his own reasons. But yeah, ‘your momma swims after troop ships’, classic stuff CCD.
Cheers & Good Luck! ‘VJ’
I won’t belabor this because I agree with the folks above who say, cut him some slack. It would have been ideal if he had brought up his girls when you mentioned M, but I suspect, too, that perhaps other women had freaked at the idea/mention. Go out again and see where it goes. And have fun — and trust your instincts!
BTW, Crazy Computer Dad I loved the comment about how guys are boneheaded, don’t know when to give up the plan (or switch to plan b), etc. It made me laugh — and remember guys bumble through all of this, too.
Rachel;
Well done in pursuing the postman, and taking him out on a date. As to him not mentioning his daughters earlier, it does seem odd to me that he didn’t disclose it when you showed him photos of your own daughter. It struck me as the perfect time to mention he was a parent and perhaps even show his own photos.
So, his timing strikes me as odd. However, it sounds like you enjoyed yourself and took pleasure in his company. And you took initiative in arranging a meeting with him. Cudos.
Jorge
I’m very upfront about having a daughter with people I’m dating. However, I guess I’m ultra protective of her. In this day and age, I’m a little paranoid of divulging too much personal information. So, although I talk about her all the time, I do not use her name and never show pictures until much later on in the process when I feel it’s safe to do so. I’m very new to the dating scene as a single mama and I’m a big mama bear when it comes to my girl and exposing her to any men I meet. Am I being too over the top?
@ Michelle – No you’re not being over the top. I, too, am very protective of my BabyGirl. Although I’m very honest and upfront about being a single parent – it is who I am – I do not share any details about my daughter. And never ever any pictures of her, especially on a first date. In fact, I think that’s kind of odd. Until I’m extremely comfortable with the person and I think the relationship has potential beyond just “dating,” the only thing he will know is that I have a child. That’s it.
The older my daughter has become the longer I wait to say anything. Some men to this day still wouldn’t know I have a daughter….too many reasons to list..vulnerability for her and me…why drag her into it too early…she’s the most precious thing I have and thus I am more protective of her than anything else….Do you tell that same on your first date the amount of $ in your bank…your SS#…give him the keys to your car?? That’s my soapbox.
Hm.
If this guy didn’t have any kids at all and that was not an issue, do you see anything odd about this?
I realize that I am way behind the eight ball on this as I think the Postman has come and gone – but, personally, I can not imagine going out on a date and seeing pictures of a woman’s kid and not asking endless questions about her and the child. I’d feel as if I’d just snubbed her or something. I think one thing that men fail at miserably is this really ridiculous notion that he be number one in a woman’s life. If she has kids, the kids come first and I don’t see what’s so wrong about that. Also, I think men somehow think that being a father is a separate identity or something (hence the “get to know me” thing) whereas women find the two intertwined.
Then again – what the hell do I know? I’m not a single parent nor have I dated a single mother. I stumbled across Ms Single Mama’s blog and have been picking up tips since. (That is also how I stumbled across your blog.)
“Outside, the rain was still pouring. I held up my umbrella, and we both squeezed under it. He gently put his hand around my waist.” I love this part
He seems like a really decent guy, hope all works out for you!